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Pyro Chinese War Junk build
JJ1973
#345
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Posted: Friday, November 13, 2015 - 07:17 AM GMT+7
Tim,

that's absolutely hilarious!!! I love it!!

Cheers

Jan
BobSolo
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Posted: Friday, November 13, 2015 - 09:46 AM GMT+7
Awesome!! I love models with humour! Even with the "full moon" it would be a bit dark in there, so def light it

Looks like his mast has snapped of in a rough night, might want to erect him another one
bwiber
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Posted: Friday, November 13, 2015 - 10:06 AM GMT+7
Not only is this one of the most informative blogs on how the ship was constructed and operated, but it provided one of the best laughs I have had in a while.

Superb build.....

Bob
KoSprueOne
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Posted: Friday, November 13, 2015 - 02:29 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

. . .
but if you’re game, scroll down...
I found these unconventional HO scale figures online:. . .


Quoted Text

That looks great, a lil surprise when you look around the back! ...BobSolo


I agree, Bob; here’s my favorite perspective – the “stern view”:




great idea!




Hederstierna
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Posted: Friday, November 13, 2015 - 09:07 PM GMT+7
HAHAHA
Guess the title will be something like "The love boat" or "Slow boat to China"
More of this on the site.
Jacob
RedDuster
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Posted: Saturday, November 14, 2015 - 03:57 AM GMT+7
Nice one Tim,

A bit of subtle lighting might be a good idea.

Might me laugh.

Cheers.

Si
BobSolo
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Posted: Saturday, November 14, 2015 - 05:29 AM GMT+7
You could put Nick Nack hanging off the mast http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3hyz6_the-man-with-the-golden-gun-end-tit_shortfilms
Robbd01
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Posted: Saturday, November 14, 2015 - 06:17 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Thanks, guys.

Quoted Text

Tim,
...looks good with the door open. Not sure how to depict the rudder controls though... John



John, your comment got me thinking... I didn’t depict the rudder controls (what would amount to a large tiller) in the cabin, or the rudder raising cables leading from the winches above, or the mizzen mast base which might be visible through the door. It would all be guesswork anyway as I have no references from which to work.

So I’m taking a different tack entirely. Rather than creating a technically accurate space, I thought I’d go for something a little more interesting and focus on the human element. The figure I test fitted earlier looked good, but with that large open door I thought it might be fun to try something a little different.

CAUTION – IF YOU ARE OFFENDED BY NUDITY OR HUMAN SEXUALITY READ NO FURTHER!





Interesting how watching a build log turns into a fading memory from the past. Reminds me of one time when I was in the USN, late '70s, Hong Kong, Liberty call. Been there, done that (Though the boat was a lot smaller)

Big Cheers


TRM5150
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Posted: Saturday, November 14, 2015 - 09:52 AM GMT+7
A stroke of brilliance Tim!!
RussellE
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Posted: Saturday, November 14, 2015 - 10:58 PM GMT+7
Great work Tim!

I love the tongue-in-cheek approach too. Cheeky, but lots of fun.

Aurora-7
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Posted: Monday, November 16, 2015 - 02:25 AM GMT+7


Just be carefull if you should take it to any shows. You might want to add curtains.
surfsup
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Posted: Monday, November 16, 2015 - 07:01 PM GMT+7
That is an absolute Classic. I love it......Cheers mark
BobSolo
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Posted: Monday, November 16, 2015 - 10:01 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text



Just be carefull if you should take it to any shows. You might want to add curtains.



He could charge for a look, put a coin slot in the side like a peep show
TimReynaga
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Posted: Friday, November 20, 2015 - 04:34 PM GMT+7
Thanks for the comments, guys! It is good to hear that the scene comes across as humorous rather than tacky!

After test fitting the figures in the cabin, I found some references which show how the rudder controls in there might have looked. Illustrations ranging from the rudder of one of Admiral Zheng He’s giant ships to sampan-sized junks suggest that a simple tiller arrangement would have been likely.
 photo Junk rudder painting_zpsi8am6a0h.jpg photo 2fa9ca1a-c13e-4895-b350-b695ec908784_zps15mjxnca.jpg

I built up a tiller post up using Plastruct 1.5mm round rod with a .059 inch disc cap. The handle is Evergreen .030 X .030 inch square plastic which was tapered slightly at one end.
 photo d7348a8b-1531-4121-ab0f-068ec7660ae0_zps3mbvhyas.jpg photo e476aedd-8208-4713-89bc-5a7fbd8e91fc_zpsizkpjtzo.jpg

I haven’t decided yet whether or not to use it. It looks good test fitted, but it would require that the figures be moved off center in the cabin, making the cavorting couple a little harder to see. On the other hand, the unattended helm could provide an amusing suggestion that the helmsman (helmswoman?) is neglecting one duty while attending to another...

JJ1973
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Posted: Monday, November 23, 2015 - 06:32 AM GMT+7
Tim,

I like the idea of the unattended helm this is getting better and better!!

Cheers,

Jan
TimReynaga
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Posted: Thursday, November 26, 2015 - 03:52 AM GMT+7
At the suggestion of my wife and others, I decided to add a little internal illumination to the cabin so the activity in there won’t be lost to view once things are sealed up. Never having done this before, I didn’t really know how to proceed, but a trip to the local hobby shop yielded some small yellow incandescent lights.
 photo Pyro Chinese War Junk lights in pack_zpskr9y8mci.jpg

Temporarily attached to the cabin overhead, the dim, amber glow of the small bulb suggests a tiny lantern. Cool. It is hard to see the effect under normal room lighting, but it will provide just enough light to enable the cabin interior to be seen.
 photo 37c9ed5f-7b01-4e08-80f4-9b3bb087b0ca_zpsgflwanvm.jpg photo dc0e74df-ead4-448a-9c7c-6f5b880dcd42_zps8b3e7fgk.jpg

Now the hard part – concealing the wires. Emerging from the poop deck, they needed to be inconspicuously routed to the power source, a small AAA battery (which will be hidden in the base).
 photo Pyro Chinese War Junk lights wiring on deck_zps6yxt403q.jpg

I experimented with snaking the wires into a small hole cut into the main deck. Once the outer bulkhead of the cabin is in place, the stairs will partially obscure them. I still have to figure out a way to conceal them further...
 photo 04bfb79c-5d98-4574-8b55-bdba505add73_zpsfe1lgqd2.jpg photo 2bc9a225-7f34-4c44-b785-d1ffbbf7194a_zpswy21qh6y.jpg

From there the wires will go through the hull and out a small hole in the keel and into the base, which was mounted on a small plastic box I had built up to accommodate the 1.5 volt AAA battery.
 photo 99773540-7a62-4a95-a6a3-1986976439fd_zpsmgcakhna.jpg photo 76951cb1-fc68-47fb-b79b-85d407af18a8_zpsy3cgg1ez.jpg
 photo f0d1f5e5-5efe-46fa-8622-e624990e40ff_zpsaw6wu5r3.jpg photo 8f178e78-e0e5-4181-84fa-b5de9027b6f9_zps9m6dbek2.jpg

It isn’t perfect, and I spent WAY too much time figuring out this simple solution, but the result should be fun.
 photo Pyro Chinese War Junk lights on base test fitted whole_zpsj8lj3icw.jpg

Now for a break to engage in the time honored American Thanksgiving holiday tradition of rounding up the family to binge on turkey, dressing, pie, and hours of college football on TV!
RedDuster
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Posted: Thursday, November 26, 2015 - 07:53 AM GMT+7
Nice work with the tiller Tim,

Just a thought, but would the tiller not be up on the poop deck, or at least somewhere where the helmsman could see where he was going and the set of the sails.

Cheers.

Si
bwiber
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Posted: Thursday, November 26, 2015 - 02:17 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Nice work with the tiller Tim,

Just a thought, but would the tiller not be up on the poop deck, or at least somewhere where the helmsman could see where he was going and the set of the sails.

Cheers.

Si



Ok, I will be the second spoil sport..... Looking at the image you posted with the sails, wouldn't the mizzen mast go through that compartment? It is starting to get pretty crowded in there, but I doubt that would stop the fun...

However, I have faith that you will make it work.

Bob
JJ1973
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Posted: Thursday, November 26, 2015 - 05:34 PM GMT+7
Very nice touch with the lights - it's getting better and better!!!

Truly enjoyable what you get out of this old little gem!!

Cheers,

Jan
surfsup
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Posted: Thursday, November 26, 2015 - 05:44 PM GMT+7
Getting better each time I see her.....Cheers mark
TimReynaga
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Posted: Thursday, November 26, 2015 - 07:22 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Nice work with the tiller Tim,

Just a thought, but would the tiller not be up on the poop deck, or at least somewhere where the helmsman could see where he was going and the set of the sails.

Cheers.

Si
_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Ok, I will be the second spoil sport..... Looking at the image you posted with the sails, wouldn't the mizzen mast go through that compartment? It is starting to get pretty crowded in there, but I doubt that would stop the fun...

However, I have faith that you will make it work.

Bob


Si,
I think you’re right! I had followed the pattern of rudder control from inside the cabin based on European ships of the 15th Century (as with my previous Niña and Pinta builds), but I forgot that Chinese ships were very different! As in the photo below, I’ll probably go with your suggestion and reposition the tiller to the upper deck aft:
 photo Junk picture modern_zpsy24ixtj5.jpg
Bob,
I too had thought the mizzen would extend through the cabin to be anchored deep within the vessel as with European ships, but again, Chinese design was VERY different! According to Hans Van Tilburg’s Chinese Junks on the Pacific - Views from a Different Deck, junk masts were not set deeply into the hull but were rather sandwiched between fixed mast partners; “...the weight of the mast was carried to the two mast partners, supported by the deck beams, bulkhead partner brackets, and carried only indirectly to the thwart ship mast step, obviating the need for a single massive keelson.” So the light mizzen mast didn’t anchor much further down than the poop deck itself. You can see this in a drawing from G.R.G. Worchester’s Junks and Sampans of the Yangtze:
 photo a18f8fec-183e-4ab0-b7ec-a5e48a4cd8dc_zpsuo75kapy.jpg
I must admit, Chinese design remains mostly a mystery to me – the masts were not only shallowly anchored, but they apparently had no standing rigging to support them, either – but at least it frees up the cabin space below for other activities!

YellowHammer
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Posted: Thursday, November 26, 2015 - 07:39 PM GMT+7
Hi Tim,
I agree its looking better and better. Regarding Bob and Simon's comments I think you have space in the cabin to insert a post to represent the mizzen mast between the rudder post and the cabin hatch so it should not take up too much space. Regarding the tiller I think you have a couple of options; (1) you move it to the poop deck and just place a connecting post in the cabin; and (2)leave it in the cabin. I know some western ships put their wheels/tillers in stern cabins, mainly to protect the steersmen from the elements and combat. I don't know if this was a feature of junks though.

I had a couple of technical questions though. With the junks having the ability to raise their rudders, did the builders use some kind of linkage or hinge arrangement to allow keeping the tiller post vertical, or did the tiller post tilt in some kind of slot when the rudder was raised? Second question, did the Chinese use a compass, and if so, was it mounted near the tiller?

Third question is related to the kit: On the poop deck there looks to be three U shaped supports/stands. Are these to store the mizzen sails when not raised or is there another part to be installed on the kit. Depending on their function they may interfere with putting the tiller on the poop deck.

Again, I'm really liking the thought you are putting into this little kit.
Thanks
John
YellowHammer
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Posted: Thursday, November 26, 2015 - 07:55 PM GMT+7
Well Tim, it looks like you posted while I was typing my reply. Some great info there. I noticed in the drawing you posted a chain and pulley arrangement for raising the tiller with the chain hanging into the cabin. I don't see any hinge or linkage on the rudder post so I guess the post tilted some when raised. The mounting of the mizzen mast was a surprise to me. I really can't see how they manage to keep the mizzen erect without standing rigging. You've got some great references there.
Thanks
John
TimReynaga
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Posted: Friday, November 27, 2015 - 05:33 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Hi Tim,
... question ... related to the kit: On the poop deck there looks to be three U shaped supports/stands. Are these to store the mizzen sails when not raised or is there another part to be installed on the kit. Depending on their function they may interfere with putting the tiller on the poop deck...
Thanks
John


Hi John,
Those stands are supports for some truly awful winches provided by Pyro. Here they are test fitted:
 photo dde8407b-ea5e-45fa-96d1-92cfb60d9874_zpswcc1dwkf.jpg
The purpose of the winches was to raise the rudder; you can see the cables leading from them to the rudder in the drawing I posted yesterday. Placing the tiller on the poop deck as opposed to the roomier cabin below will cause some congestion up there, but there is still enough space as the helmsman would stand just forward of the winches and the tiller arm would swing over them. I’m still not certain which way to go on this.

Either way, I will have to do something about those UGLY winches!
YellowHammer
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Posted: Friday, November 27, 2015 - 07:39 AM GMT+7
Hi Tim,
Thanks for that info. Just had an epiphany about the rudder. It looks like the rudder is raised straight up along the axis of the post instead of tilting out, duh.

I agree those winches look pretty basic. I'll be interested in seeing how you dress them up. Having the chain falls from the winches go into the stern cabin below is one option that would make sense to me. It would allow the crew to use their weight on the chains when raising/lowering the rudder. If they raised the rudder from the poop deck I would think there would be some type of slots in the ends of the drums of the winches to insert handles to turn the drums, like a windlass set on its side. That would allow more of the crew to be involved in raising the rudder. The kit winches look just like simple spool pieces which would be what I would expect with chain falls. Either way you go should be okay.
Thanks again
John