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The King! - HMS King George V, May 41
RussellE
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Posted: Thursday, March 19, 2015 - 02:07 PM UTC
Many kind words and comments guys!

Thank you all, very much.

Hopefully I'll be able to get some paint on this weekend. The man cave is all up and running now, with the exception of power, so I need to time the painting for daylight hours, and when the kids are otherwise occupied

Russ
RussellE
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Posted: Sunday, March 22, 2015 - 01:46 AM UTC
Well gents,

I managed to scrounge some time to get some paint on! Hooray, I hear you all say!

Now for the bad news: Stupid me forgot that when using the medium gauge airbrush needle, stupid self should hold airbrush closer to objects being painted. Funnels now ruined!

Thusly I have totally botched the funnels and HCT tower as the paint went on all powdery! No problem, stupid self says, hit it with some gloss and it will dissolve the powder, right? Not so! The paint on the HCT tower even decided to wrinkle!

So, resisting the urge to throw the lot at the wall and with enough cursing to make a sailor blush, I closed the garage up and went back inside to wallow in my own sorrow and misery. Add here.

If anyone has any ideas on how to rescue the funnels I'd be glad to hear it-keeping in mind sanding is out due to all the PE on them, and the paint is enamel...

Am now pondering how to undo this disaster and even if I'll be able to finish in time for the BB campaign close... if at all...

Russ
allycat
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Posted: Sunday, March 22, 2015 - 02:03 AM UTC
Have you had any thoughts about using oven cleaner?
I've taken old (10+ years) enamel off with this method.
The oven cleaner was in a 'sqirty' bottle and I put the parts in a plastic bag and liberally squirted the cleaner inside. Leave for a day or so then rinse thoroughly with water.
I then re-painted with no problems at all.
Good Luck
Tom

TimReynaga
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Posted: Sunday, March 22, 2015 - 02:16 AM UTC
Oh nooooooo!

Sorry to hear of your painting disaster, especially over those lovely funnels! I agree with Tom, oven cleaner can work wonders against errant enamels, but I'd caution you to test it in an inconspicuous area first. I've never had any problems, but I hear some brands can attack the plastic as well.

Don't worry, you will recover things in no time, I'm sure - for me it is practically a tradition to make at least one big time screw up on every project! Once you are on the road to putting it right things will seem like fun again.

RussellE
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Posted: Sunday, March 22, 2015 - 06:56 AM UTC
Thanks for the words of encouragement guys!

I hadn't heard of using oven-cleaner before, but I'm going have a go at it!

Thankfully I have a test mule for just such occasions. I'll have a run at it tonight and keep you posted!

Russ
rolltide31
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Posted: Monday, March 23, 2015 - 05:06 PM UTC
Russell,

I am sorry to hear about that. I know from watching your build that you will be able to turn it around.

Keeping my fingers crossed that the oven cleaner method works out.

Dave
JJ1973
#345
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Posted: Monday, March 23, 2015 - 08:23 PM UTC
Oh NO!!! Just catching up with what's going on here and among the first things I see is your mishap, Russ! That's so sad... I truly hope that you manage to recover from this without any traces on the build, but I am very confident in your skills so I am sure that after a brief period of frustration and some you'll get things sorted out.
I did hear about the oven cleaner thing before, but I was told to use it on acrylics. It worked so-so...I think that Vallejo paints remained entirely unaffected, but it did not harm the model it self.
I wish you the best of luck mate, and hoping for some good news here soon

Cheers,
Jan
RussellE
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Posted: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 - 02:30 PM UTC
Hi Dave/Jan!

I know, right? It's really frustrating to hit a road block like this.

My experiments so far and findings are thus, gents:

Oven cleaner does work. Spray it and leave it over night in a sealed bag and you can wash the paint off with a toothbrush in water.

Good news right? Not so! There is a down side-the oven cleaner eats into the adhesives and I could basically pull the test mule apart with little to no effort. I've also read that brass is going to be attacked by the caustic soda within the cleaner.

So, plan B. More internet research. Most things I could find would dissolve either the brass or the plastic. Then I read somewhere that lacquer thinners could work.

So I tried that and hey presto! It works, with little or no effort. Dip it in and a soft brush will take the paint right off!

My main concern now, is, will it remove the filler I use? I'll tell you tomorrow-with pictures!

Russ
JJ1973
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Posted: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 - 09:28 PM UTC
Russ,

I'm keeping my breath and hoping that you manage to save your fantastic build!! Luckily you have your test mules... waiting for good news!!!

Cheers mate,

Jan
TimReynaga
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Posted: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 - 12:50 AM UTC
Russ, be very careful with the lacquer thinner, I've had it attack some (but not all) polystyrene plastics in the past.
You should be fine if you use it in small areas at a time and don't soak it (guess how I know... )

Another possibility is Poly S decal remover, which I have also used to take off enamels. It works slowly but is harmless to plastics. I don't know if it is still available, though.

Anyway, good luck. Given your skills, I'm sure you will make it work!
RussellE
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Posted: Thursday, March 26, 2015 - 01:33 AM UTC
Well folks, the experiments continue:

I'm using Testors Lacquer thinner and it seems to have had no affect on either the styrene or the filler!

Ran out of time to get some pics last night.

Hopefully will get something online over the weekend

Russ
RussellE
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Posted: Saturday, March 28, 2015 - 04:37 PM UTC
29/3/15 update.

Hi Guys! Well, what a weekend end!

First up, the items that were successfully painted! I paint all the small etch items such as hatches on the fret.





I have been thinking about what to do with all the spares from the ED PE and a 'what if' of HMS Lion has a certain appeal!

And here's the disaster that is the funnels...


And the HCT tower even had the cheek to wrinkle!

To the experiments:
I have discovered, that lacquer thinners won't work on it's own. And oven cleaner by itself is inefficient.

Here's the test mule before any 'remover' is applied! Lot's of gooey paint on this one!


If you over do it with the oven cleaner it eats into all the glue so, stick to only one application. Not only that the caustic element begins to attack the brass in the etch!


I discovered while trying to remove the paint, that lacquer thinners will remove it after only one application of oven cleaner. So here we are back at the beginning again





Note how the PVA (white glue) was attacked and the PE came off...

Now to try spraying them again!

Thanks for looking
Russ

PS this had to be the most disgusting job ever! Try to avoid it at all costs, not to mention the stink from the lacquer thinner!
Blespooky
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Posted: Saturday, March 28, 2015 - 05:18 PM UTC
Russell, you have shown fortitude and constitution in the service of the Royal Navy. You deserve a medal, many a beer and a pat on the back. Those parts look ready to be installed anew and you have shown us a new method to erase our mistakes. Good work.

Bryan
rolltide31
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Posted: Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 12:29 AM UTC
Russell

Glad to see that in the end your perseverance paid off, even at the cost of your nostrils. Thanks for sharing this lesson. I know it will come in handy in the future

I agree with Bryan, beers are indeed the order of the day

Thanks

Dave
RussellE
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Posted: Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 01:51 PM UTC
Thanks Guys!

Well, my nostrils certainly are paying the price today...

Makes me seriously consider swapping over to acrylics at some point...

Russ
JJ1973
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Posted: Monday, March 30, 2015 - 11:02 PM UTC
Russ,

great to see that you managed to recover from your mishap!! I knew you would manage

And for myself, I switched to acrylics the same day I started with my airbrush several years ago, originally for the simple reason that my shipyard is not a separate room but open to the living space and I didn't like the idea of thinner and other stuff being sprayed around. Simple alcohol - well, if you can drink it, you can breath it as well...

Looking forward to your progress now!!

Cheers mate

Jan
RedDuster
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Posted: Monday, March 30, 2015 - 11:43 PM UTC
Great recovery Russ,

It I great to see the King getting back on course, would have been a tragedy otherwise.

Good job mate, you deserve

Si
TRM5150
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Posted: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - 01:18 AM UTC
Well done on getting some new things painted up and the strip-down items done! Sorry to see and hear about the rework involved but looks like things are in good shape to go back together! Best of luck on the repaint!!

RussellE
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Posted: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - 01:35 AM UTC
Thanks everyone, for the support!

yep, hopefully paint can go on this weekend and assembly can continue to progress.

Not sure what's next: I'm thinking carley floats, and catapult, and possibly main gun barrels and 5.25"s...

Would be curious to know, what percentage of us use acrylics and what percentage use enamels?

I have a draw full of enamels of nearly every colour, so if I change to acrylics it will be a slow process

Russ
TRM5150
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Posted: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - 05:30 AM UTC
I use acrylics 99% of the time now...color range, ease of use and cleanup...drying time. Kind of all works out. I still love solvents like Tamiya but don't hit that bottle too much anymore.
TimReynaga
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Posted: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - 08:22 AM UTC

Quoted Text

...if I change to acrylics it will be a slow process

Russ



I'm with you Russ. I have resisted for years, but recent forays into acrylics (Niña and Pinta) have been encouraging. I am still much more comfortable with enamels, but the ease of use, relative lack of toxicity, and increasingly easier availability of acrylics are slowly drawing me in...

Cosimodo
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Posted: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - 02:21 PM UTC
Hi Russell,
Nice recovery! It could have happened using enamels or acrylics but I think the latter would have been easier to strip.

I think I was out of modelling for too long to be using anything but acrylics for painting now. I only use non-acrylics for post painting work. But I can understand the dilemma you have given the investment we make in collecting a large range of paint pots.

cheers
Michael
Blespooky
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Posted: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - 05:38 PM UTC
I use only acrylics, started with Tamiya and moved to Vallejo. I just buy what I need for each model and before you know it you have almost all of the colors you need.

Bryan
RussellE
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Posted: Wednesday, April 01, 2015 - 02:45 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I use only acrylics, started with Tamiya and moved to Vallejo. I just buy what I need for each model and before you know it you have almost all of the colors you need.

Bryan



Hi Bryan

I think that’s how I’ve collected so many enamels-30plus years of modelling Lots of memories of past kits in that draw.


Quoted Text

Hi Russell,
Nice recovery! It could have happened using enamels or acrylics but I think the latter would have been easier to strip.

I think I was out of modelling for too long to be using anything but acrylics for painting now. I only use non-acrylics for post painting work. But I can understand the dilemma you have given the investment we make in collecting a large range of paint pots.

cheers
Michael


Yep, definitely a brain fart on my behalf Michael!


Quoted Text

I'm with you Russ. I have resisted for years, but recent forays into acrylics (Niña and Pinta) have been encouraging. I am still much more comfortable with enamels, but the ease of use, relative lack of toxicity, and increasingly easier availability of acrylics are slowly drawing me in...


It seems most have switched over to acrylics at some point, and us toxic avengers are few and far between Tim.

What really got me thinking about it, was WEM's demise, meaning that we now need to look elsewhere for specific colour palettes. (Even though Colourcoat’s has new owners, nothing seems to been forthcoming from them.) It seems the other nail in the coffin for enamels is that postal services have banned solvents from their air freight, tipping the tide further in acrylics' favour.

Enamels have always had the edge on the acrylics in terms of colour range and durability, but with acrylics there's no toxic fumes or solvents. With a young family now, no doubt at some point they'll be wanting to have a go at Dad's hobby for themselves, to see what all the fuss is about, so that puts even more in acrylics’ favour.

The hardest part will be the change over. With a draw full of enamels, most of which still have 2/3rds of their contents remaining, and some over 20years old, this could get expensive…

Then there’s learning a whole new skillset to be able to successfully air brush acrylics as opposed to enamels… ah the drama!!!

Quoted Text

I use acrylics 99% of the time now...color range, ease of use and cleanup...drying time. Kind of all works out. I still love solvents like Tamiya but don't hit that bottle too much anymore.


Hehee, Todd, that sounds like there’s another kind of bottle that’s more tempting…?
TRM5150
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Posted: Wednesday, April 01, 2015 - 10:53 PM UTC
LOL...there should be another "bottle" I should be hitting Russ!!

The acrylic learning curve is really not too bad. I work with/for Vallejo at shows and online troubleshooting here in the States and the most common complaints toward acrylics (any of them) is tip clogging, binding to plastic and what to thin with them. I most cases the issues are easily corrected through changing air pressure and application methods.

When the time comes, we can always start a thread on Acrylic Adaptation where everyone here can join in and share their tricks and experiences using acrylics all in one place. We all stand to learn something new everyday!