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Ships by Class/Type: Cruisers
Topics covering cruisers both past and present.
Hosted by Todd Michalak
Prinz Eugen - May 1941
warshipbuild
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Posted: Friday, May 19, 2017 - 05:51 AM GMT+7
WEM used to be good gear which you could rely upon for reasonable accuracy.

Having gotten their Belfast PE set just before they folded, I was disappointed with the end-quality.

Trouble is, for the Tribal & Flower kits in 1/350, they're still the only game in town.

All the PE for the rest of my kits is from Eduard,but with a couple of MK 1 design bits chucked in for Queen Elizabeth & Warspite.
RedDuster
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Posted: Thursday, May 18, 2017 - 07:26 AM GMT+7
Hi Russ,

I think the term you are looking for is "Rubbing strake".

Like your plan for the boats, looking forward to seeing it come to fruition.

Cheers

Si
RussellE
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Posted: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 - 10:24 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Good call for the cranes Russ. I'll look later, but the differences in boom length that you identified are actually true to the real thing.
I'll explain - On page 33 of Koop's 'Heavy Cruisers of the Hipper Class' book, there is a line drawing of the cranes fitted to PE, and AH & Blucher. The latter pair were fitted with identical cranes with the shorter jib arm.
PE was fitted with a crane which had a longer horizontal arm at the end and with 2 x pulleys and a small light midway between the two.

I'd scan and email you a copy but I can't get my printer to save to the pc - whatever happened to 'dumb' printers eh?
These HP smart printers are too smart for their own good!



Hi Dave

I know what you mean-tech ain't what it used to be. It used to be useful, now, hm, I'm not so sure

That's okay though, 'cos I have the same reference book from Koop and Smolke and yes, the Prinz had different cranes to Hipper and Blucher, much longer in fact.

Trumpeter's offering however falls short of the actual length of Prinz's cranes according to the Kagero drawings and too short to reach the crane cradles. Weird huh? Here's where it gets even more weird. WEM's crane booms are the correct length, while being unbuildable, but their pulleys match Trumpeter's boom length. So you can't use the WEM pulleys on the WEM jib/boom (which you can't build anyway) but you can use them on Trumpeter's kit parts as per what I've done. Confused yet?


Quoted Text

Excellent build so far Russ!

Cheers!



Hi Mike

thank you-getting there!


Quoted Text

Russell,

Amazing work. I really enjoy watching your builds and how you go about addressing the challenges of the kit.

If you send me a PM with your mailing address I will ship you a set of the Master masts and yard arms.

Looking forward to seeing your further progression.

Dave



Hi Dave

sir, you are too kind! Thank you! PM on it's way!

Tech update

I have an idea on the ships boats. I think I may cut the roofs off to add the scuttles/windows then fit a scratch built roof and life ring.

There's also a "mooring bumper" ( i don't know if that's the right term-correct me if I'm wrong) running the length of the boats' hulls. I'll add that with sheet styrene...

Thoughts guys?
rolltide31
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Posted: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 - 07:45 AM GMT+7
Russell,

Amazing work. I really enjoy watching your builds and how you go about addressing the challenges of the kit.

If you send me a PM with your mailing address I will ship you a set of the Master masts and yard arms.

Looking forward to seeing your further progression.

Dave
mgrummitt
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Posted: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 - 05:23 AM GMT+7
Excellent build so far Russ!

Cheers!
warshipbuild
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Posted: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 - 04:05 AM GMT+7
Good call for the cranes Russ. I'll look later, but the differences in boom length that you identified are actually true to the real thing.
I'll explain - On page 33 of Koop's 'Heavy Cruisers of the Hipper Class' book, there is a line drawing of the cranes fitted to PE, and AH & Blucher. The latter pair were fitted with identical cranes with the shorter jib arm.
PE was fitted with a crane which had a longer horizontal arm at the end and with 2 x pulleys and a small light midway between the two.

I'd scan and email you a copy but I can't get my printer to save to the pc - whatever happened to 'dumb' printers eh?
These HP smart printers are too smart for their own good!
RussellE
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Posted: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 - 11:36 PM GMT+7
Hi Michael

thanks for the heads up!

I will definitely be looking into these!
Cosimodo
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Posted: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 - 08:07 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Thanks Gaz

brass masts are great aren't they? So much better than the (often warped) styrene kit parts that won't hold up under rigging...

There's a big gap in the after market market for brass mast replacements-surprised no manufacturer has tweaked to this so far...


Hi Russ,
I don't know the size of Prinz masts but Master do a range of brass masts and yards. The yards are especially good as they are tapered which saves a bit of effort on the self build approach. They come in a range of lengths. The masts are also tapered but only come in 100mm lengths but different widths. May save you some time.

cheers
Michael
RussellE
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Posted: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 - 04:02 PM GMT+7
hehe, yer I bet. Those starfish are tricky!

Luckily though WEM to the rescue: both platforms are supplied for the Prinz!
GazzaS
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Posted: Monday, May 15, 2017 - 06:04 AM GMT+7
Russ,
I doubt many would entertain the idea of brass masts. They'd be putting in a lot of work and probably not sell well as many ppl are still happy to live with plastic masts.

Making my first starfish almost drove me nuts.

Gaz
RussellE
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Posted: Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 10:28 PM GMT+7
Thanks Gaz

brass masts are great aren't they? So much better than the (often warped) styrene kit parts that won't hold up under rigging...

There's a big gap in the after market market for brass mast replacements-surprised no manufacturer has tweaked to this so far...
GazzaS
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Posted: Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 06:02 AM GMT+7
Russ,
THe cranes look good! The boats a bit of a challenge. Looking forward to the brass masts. I've done them on two ships so far.

Gaz
RedDuster
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Posted: Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 04:52 AM GMT+7
Apologies Russ,

Fat fingers on my part, have tried again, seems to have gone this time.

Understand your dilemma it has put me off starting one these, the boats do need a lot of help.

Good luck with whichever way you go.

Cheers

Si
RussellE
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Posted: Saturday, May 13, 2017 - 11:32 PM GMT+7
Cheers mate-actually stuck at the moment: There's very little left to do, but I can't decide what to do next... I think I need to sort the boats out.

Nothing in my email yet. I'll check the PM I sent you-maybe a typo in there.

Found another quibble with the WEM PE. Number of paravanes on the Prinz: 8. Number of paravanes covered by the WEM PE: 4.

Sigh. Again.

So. What to do, what to do?

Dress up the kit's boats or go the shapeways??? hmmm...
RedDuster
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Posted: Saturday, May 13, 2017 - 12:51 AM GMT+7
Nice work on the cranes mate, reckon you have made the right call there.

There should be something on your email, hope it is some help if you decide to do something. I would certainly be interesting in some after market German boats, as I have the Prinz and the Hipper in the stash, and may do some more hacking about of Zestorsers I=on the future.

Keep p the good work on the Prinz

Cheers

Si
RussellE
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Posted: Friday, May 12, 2017 - 11:16 PM GMT+7
Gaz

I reckon you're right mate. I'm going to see how I go updating the blobs, ahem, sorry I meant boats

Si

PM on it's way

Update 13th May

Well, a mini update. First up, the cranes. This first pic shows the PE cranes from the WEM set. The central top section is too long to allow anything to be set between the pulleys.

Here's a shot with the PE compared to the kit parts-as you can see the PE is much longer.

and against the Kagero drawings

so I used the kit parts which are closer to the real thing in that the real ships cranes were more of box section. I combined this with the PE pulley from the WEM fret and some of the Trumpy PE for the drivers cab. There's still some bits to go on but they're looking ok.



Then we have the 8m launch's cradles ready to paint too

Last but not least the kit's blobs, ahem, sorry I mean boats again

At this point I am thinking the best way to move forward from here is to manually add in the boat's portholes then ad the PE from WEM.

Unless I get a heap of interest for me to buy the plans, model them up and place AM on Shapeways of course.


So this brings me to the point where aside from the paravanes all the kit parts have been used. Yes, yes, I know the masts, but I have a thing for replacing them with brass...

Thanks again for looking in staying patient till the end!
RedDuster
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Posted: Friday, May 12, 2017 - 07:47 AM GMT+7
Hi Russ,

PM me your email and I will get the page scanned over the weekend.

Cheers

Si
GazzaS
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Posted: Thursday, May 11, 2017 - 02:00 PM GMT+7
Russ,
I reckon if you take your time And Web search using the German names for those boats, you'll eventually run into some modern, colour pictures. Because those things are still out there. Add some windows, portholes, and some fine brass for railings and handles, and you should be able to turn those trumpeter lumps into decent vessels.

Gaz
RussellE
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Posted: Thursday, May 11, 2017 - 09:47 AM GMT+7
Tim

That's a great photo and helps heaps. I reckon you're correct: It looks like timber planking, but it looks like there's a fair gap between each plank-almost like drainage?

I was planning on scratching the platform from plain sheet styrene, but now I see the pic, I think I will use the Trumpy part which has the lines scribed on, but I will paint it dark grey to match the tread plate on the steel decks...

Gaz

That's a great website! I'd have never been able to find that! This is the great thing about MSW community: that we're all here to help each other!

So from what I read/translated on google translate this guy has plans... hmmm... I'll see what the BundesArchiv's response to my query is. If it's no good I may need to pony up some Euro. Although Mrs E may not allow that. Maybe I need to go back to the Trumpy boats and see if I can add windows etc manually???

I think after finishing the cranes (which is going quite well actually-photos soon) I may go back and see what can be done with the kit's boats...

Thanks again to you all for helping and sticking around on this very looooong build!
GazzaS
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Posted: Wednesday, May 10, 2017 - 12:55 PM GMT+7
...and if you wanna spend some money, this guy has all kinds of stuff:

http://www.ship-model-today.de/schiffsdetails.htm

He's got some great pics there, but unfortunately everything on the pages aren't linked to anything. But, it's a start.


Gaz
GazzaS
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Posted: Wednesday, May 10, 2017 - 12:41 PM GMT+7
Hi Russell,

Any luck with German boats and cranes? I found this pic that might give you some help in your search:




Good luck!

Gaz
TimReynaga
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MODEL SHIPWRIGHTS
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Posted: Wednesday, May 10, 2017 - 12:29 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

...does anyone know if the searchlight platform on the main mast was planked (as Trumpy show it), steel deck in light grey, or steel deck in dark grey?...



Hi Russ,

Here are a couple of pictures of Prinz Eugen’s mainmast showing the searchlight platform there.

 photo Prinz Eugen1_zpsg7345w1b.jpg
 photo Prinz Eugen2_zpsyo6v4aae.jpg

The platform decking appears to be wood. On the extreme left of the second picture you can even see some of the wooden plugs used to cover the securing bolts in the planks. As for color... maybe Kriegsmarine deck gray? The shade appears similar to the fragment of non-slip steel deck visible by the sailor and boxes to the right.
RussellE
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Posted: Wednesday, May 10, 2017 - 09:41 AM GMT+7
Thanks Si

I've contacted the BundesArchiv in Germany to see if they can help. According to their website they have good naval records so fingers crossed. Hey, somebody's got to have plans somewhere given all the ship kits that come out with these boats on board. Even HMS Eskimo kit from Trumpy had German boats!

Jan's also provided some very useful drawings, so that's a good start point.

For the mast platforms, I think you may be right. In 1945 it was probably light grey, but in 1941 according to Eric Leon dark grey platforms would be accurate.

Now, back to battle with the cranes!
RedDuster
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Posted: Wednesday, May 10, 2017 - 07:28 AM GMT+7
Good fix for the lower halve of the boats Russ,

Had a dig through my references, The Kagero 3D book shows the searchlight platform steel, but light grey, (But that is 1945 fit), the Seaforth German Camo book for 1941 shows it dark grey. No doubt Jan will have better references than that.

I do have some basic drawings in the Top Drawings book on Tirpitz of German boats, 4 view, and a scrap sketch of each of what they call the "Admiral's Boat", Transport motor boat, fast motor boat and cutter, can scan you the page if that would help.

Si
RussellE
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Posted: Tuesday, May 09, 2017 - 12:56 PM GMT+7
Okay, folks, another technical question dun dun DUN!

Currently working on the ship's boats, but they are less than satisfactory: Essentially they are just solid blobs of plastic with no windows and the aftermarket available for them doesn't give me much hope on rectifying that.

So, what are my options here?
1. Leave as is and go with the flow.
or
2. If I can get my hands on some plans/drawings of the ship's boats I can model them up in 3d CAD and have them printed on shapeways!
The bonus here is that they'll be available for others who need them too! These are the same boats that were used on many DKM ships so they'll be of use across a lot more ships than just the Prinz!

So, if anyone has plans/drawings that they'd be willing to share, drop me a line please

In the meantime I shall continue working on other areas of the ship.

PS. Revell only sent 2 directors, here's hoping they send 2 more!